Could you go 24 hours without using any screens? That’s what Tiffany Shlain, author of 24/6: The Power of Unplugging One Day a Week has been doing for more than a decade. The “tech Shabbat” helped her to be more present, more creative, and more free. In this episode of Well Said, Tiffany talks to co-host Shivani Persad about the incredible benefits of unplugging one day a week, like distraction-free engagement with loved ones and rediscovering passions.
Could you go 24 hours without using any screens? That’s what Tiffany Shlain, author of 24/6: The Power of Unplugging One Day a Week has been doing for more than a decade. The “tech Shabbat” helped her to be more present, more creative, and more free. In this episode of Well Said, Tiffany talks to co-host Shivani Persad about the incredible benefits of unplugging one day a week, like distraction-free engagement with loved ones and rediscovering passions.
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Heather Reisman: Hi. I’m Heather Reisman, and this is Well Said, a podcast on the art and science of living well. This podcast is brought to you by Indigo. Today’s episode is hosted by Shivani Persad, a wonderfully curious journalist and a fellow booklover.
Shivani Persad: Have you ever sat down for dinner with your family, only to have everyone pull out their phones? Screens have become more integrated in our lives than ever before, especially after the year we've had. But being on screens all the time just is not good for us. They're addictive. Screentime literally affects our sleep. It affects our attention spans. And too much of it can actually change our brains. Our guest today offers a simple but transformative solution. Today, we're in conversation with Tiffany Shlain, Emmy-nominated filmmaker, speaker, and founder of the Webby Awards. That's right, the award that recognizes excellence on the Internet. So she knows a thing or two about screentime.
Tiffany Shlain: No one at the end of their life is going to wish they scrolled more.
Shivani Persad: Tiffany explains how she changed her relationship with technology by taking one day off from screens every single week. It’s a day she calls a Tech Shabbat. She joins us today to talk about how she started this practice, and how anyone can benefit from unplugging. Tiffany Shlain, welcome to the Indigo podcast. We’re so grateful to have you here, really excited about this conversation.
Tiffany Shlain: Oh, I'm so excited too.
Shivani Persad: In the book, 24/6, you’re advocating for Tech Shabbats, which is something that you and your family have been doing for 10 years. What is a Tech Shabbat?
Tiffany Shlain: We turn off screens, all screens, from Friday night to Saturday night. And it's literally been the best thing I've ever done in my life. And this February, it will be 11 years.
Shivani Persad: Wow.
Tiffany Shlain: Which is astounding, because it keeps getting better, and I keep seeing the different ways it makes my life better, and my brain better, and my soul. And my kids, because my husband I have an 11- and a 17-year-old now. So I can really see the different way that they look at technology and how it kind of recharges them too.
Shivani Persad: And you say that, in the book, unplugging for a full day each week is a punk rock reaction to our always-on 24/7 world. It makes the world wait while we do what we want. It's totally free, and it's totally freeing. What's the value of unplugging for you?
Tiffany Shlain: I'm so glad you brought up that punk rock line—no one's really used that one. And I do feel like it is really a punk rock reaction, because I think we have created a society that just has this expectation that we need to respond to everything every second. And it's exhausting, and we weren't designed to live that way. So by just saying to the whole world, “Actually, I'm taking a day off every week,” it's setting a boundary. And I think that's kind of punk rock in a world that has no boundaries anymore. And, you know, by holding that phone and, you know, you're basically bringing the whole world with you every second. And I think there's value with being by yourself—hearing your own thoughts without so much input all the time. And if you live with someone, there's so much value to be just with that person and not just with that person and the whole world on your phone. And I think we've forgotten, you know, there's nothing more valuable than presence, and it's very difficult to achieve that right now. So the way… when my family turns off all screens, it's like we're building this protective zone around our house and our minds, and especially during the pandemic. And, you know, I'm in the US, so the election, it's just been such a stressful period that every week I feel like it’s complete self-protective space around me that allows me to kind of think and connect and recharge in this really powerful way. And I’m also… I should also say I'm psyched to go back online Saturday night. And that's also a double benefit is that every Friday I kind of run towards being able to turn off the screens, and then on Saturday nights I'm like, “Oh, I live in the 21st century, how remarkable that the Internet exists.” Like, it allows you to have a double bump every week of both, “Oh my god, this is how I feel without screens and it feels so good, and it's an amazing thing to be connected.” Just I don't want to be that connected all the time.
Shivani Persad: Can you talk about some of the different ways, different kinds of people—say, people with a family, people with young children, a single person—can fit this tech break into their lives?
Tiffany Shlain: I think, really understanding your life: what day would be best for you, what are the things that bring you joy. Like, write a list of things you wish you spent more time doing, or you wish you did in an uninterrupted way. When does technology amplify your experience? And when does it amputate it? And if you can really start to think, “When does it give me energy?” “When is it draining energy?” and strengthen that muscle to distinguish those two things, you’ll start using it in a smarter way. And I think one of the most profound strategies for that is a full day off. A lot of ways I describe the feeling I have on Tech Shabbats is I feel very liberated. I feel freed of all the responding and the so much input and stress. And I think we're just so not used to knowing what it feels like to be without it that when… and because it's this regularity of every week, you just crave it. I mean, I start looking forward to our Tech Shabbats on Wednesday. I'm like, “Oh, I'm going to get Friday night. It’s coming.”
Shivani Persad: I think something you mentioned in the book, in the beginning, that stood out to me, that I'm sure stood out to a lot of readers as well, is that you said that in all of these moments of quiet we turn to our phones, why don't we turn to ourselves? And so that was so profound to me. And so I've actually, since I've started reading the book, I haven't done a full day, just yet, but I've taken an hour to just go on a walk without my phone. And I always think about that when I’m in those quiet moments.
Tiffany Shlain: I mean, there's so much neuroscience behind this. But the reason why you come up with your best ideas or insights when you're in the shower, doing the dishes, going for a walk is there's this mode your mind goes into called the default mode network, and it's when your mind is not getting any new input. But there's so much input in there that's so particular to who you are—like your life past experiences, what you've read, who you're with—and your mind starts doing this magical thing where it starts making unique connections that are completely unique to you. And so, I also am a big journal writer and I know that all of my best ideas in the last 11 years have happened on Saturday. They happen when I'm not getting new input but I'm processing the input that's already been there. So because I know that and I'm a filmmaker, so creativity is super important, “When am I going to come up with creative ideas?” You need to create space to have those ideas. We're getting so much input, but you also need to create space to just process. I don't really hear that inner voice except when it's quiet. And I feel like we're optimizing every second so much. We're… we’re on a walk, we listen to a podcast; we’re in the shower, we listen to the news. And just think, like, what’s the magic time where nothing's coming in that's new and you are able to just be with yourself and what's already in there. That's really important.
Shivani Persad: There are so many social aspects to screen addiction. You talk about the experience of being in a group. And when one person takes out their phone, everyone does. Like how yawns are contagious, right? Can you tell us more about the psychology behind addictions to our devices and to social media?
Tiffany Shlain: Yeah. Well, they are absolutely designed to keep you glued to the screen. I mean, there's a great documentary called Social Dilemma, which really outlines the business model on why this is. Now, my background is in technology. I founded the Webby Awards in my 20s, so I've had a career in technology. And I know the specific year that all the Web… the Web used to be like a non-profit public utility for the public. It was created by academics. And then as soon as, in the early days of the Web, you saw all these corporations being like, “How do I make money from it?” “How can we make money from it?” And then how they made money is to keep you on longer so that they could put ads that you would buy things from, and they could sell it against that. So the reason why it's so hard to pull away from the phone is that it's designed to keep you there as long as possible to sell you more things. So, I always feel like it's also a kind of a I'm-taking-my-mind-back. And I always feel like when I'm online I can never get enough. I can't get enough social media. I can't get enough news headlines. I can't get enough email. I want those boots in that ad that keeps appearing near my…. I mean, like, I'm just like hungry, hungry for more. And this fascinating thing happens that when I turn the screens off on Friday night, it's such a quick switch. But I immediately stop being hungry, and I switch into this mode of appreciation and being grateful for what’s right in front of me.
Shivani Persad: Yeah. And something that I feel like you illustrated really well in the book—Hineni, the declaration of self. When I think about words that define our generation, what really illustrated what you just said to me was when you said, “‘Here I am,’ becomes ‘Look at me,’ becomes ‘Like’ and ‘Subscribe.’” And so Like and Subscribe, to me, is so definitive of our generation. Right? That… that dopamine hit that we get that you also talk about when we get that Like or when we get that Subscribe.
Tiffany Shlain: Well, you know, that's interesting because I… I mean, I love Instagram and Twitter. I mean, I'm active on those the other six days, but then there’s always this point where it turns from fun to like, “What am I going to do next?” And it starts not being a creative impulse but a desire for more Likes. And then that’s when I’m like, “Okay. Put… put it away.” And then usually by Friday, I just feel relief. I don’t need to, you know, feed the machine of it all. And I get back to myself. And then I… you know, we are living with these tools. This is… I run a film studio. When I… I just released a film. I’m using all those social media tools to get the word out. And I have a newsletter and…. I see the power and the beauty and the connection of sharing ideas, and creativity, and connection, but then there’s this point where it just takes it to the extreme where you can’t get out. You feel like you can’t get out of these… this hamster wheel of need for creating and liking, and that whole kind of feed. So I feel like this Tech Shabbats allows me to completely detach from the network every week. And I get this insight—that I feel like it’s so lost when you’re just in it all the time. If you said to your boss or, you know, anyone, “I just need one day to not need to respond so I can contribute better to you and the relationship, to the company, to the world,” whatever it is. Because right now, we’re just expected to respond all the time to everyone—to friends, to bosses, to news. And it’s just it’s not healthy. I mean, I feel so much happier and kind of like I reset in such a profound way every week. And even my daughter, who's in high school, she's like, you know, there's no homework on Saturday. No one's doing anything. Because it's also about a day of rest. And I think that's an interesting idea, that if your rest and your leisure involves taking a photo on Instagram, and putting a filter, and what's the witty caption, and did people respond, I mean, that's exhausting. That becomes like work. So what does rest…? I mean, this idea of a day of rest is a 3,000-plus old idea from Judaism. And it's called The Sabbath. It's been adapted into all these different religions: a day of rest. But right now, usually only the very religious observant do that full day. And what was so exciting to me, practicing it as a cultural Jew and not particularly religious, is that I really see it as just this great way to live. That it's, I mean, it's kind of time management. It's about appreciating. It's about compartmentalizing. It’s about creating boundaries around work and rest. And it has just so many incredible benefits. And, you know, just like I do yoga and meditation, which are also these ancient wisdom practices, it’s kind of this free, simple, ancient practice that everyone can try, and bring into their life and kind of make their own.
Shivani Persad: Something you did so well in the book, that probably comes from the fact that you’re also a filmmaker, is that it was such wholistic approach where you explained the science behind it and you explained it technically, but you also explained it mentally and physically. One compelling argument to unplug is that it can reduce injuries and illness associated with screentime and computer usage. You mentioned tech neck. That’s there also eye strain, and tendonitis. You talk about how screentime is changing the way our brains work—in terms of dopamine and cortisol production, stress response, overall mental health. Can you tell us more about the science in support of unplugging?
Tiffany Shlain: Yeah. Because when you’re online all the time, you’re setting your need to be entertained, or distracted, to such a high level that…. Even when you binge on a show, you’re kind of setting your brain to need to be so entertained that when you turn it off, it’s like you’re starving for that need to be entertained. There’s all these studies. Like if you’re sitting with someone at a table at a restaurant and they have their phone off, on the table, you will be less focused. Because you’re… even seeing a phone off, turned upside down—you can’t even see the screen—you’re going to be less there. And I think, as an evolved person it’s really good to be able to just be with yourself. And even with my kids, you know, I want to teach them that they don’t need something else to entertain them—that your own brain has incredible things in it. Your own thoughts, what you come up with on your own, is just as valuable as, you know, flicking your wrist every second you’re bored to be entertained, or distracted, or numbed, or informed, or whatever it is. You know, it’s actually in those moments where there’s kind of like that awkward silence when you’re in a conversation that it usually into a more interesting place. And I think, in general, I heard this saying once: it’s like if you’re uncomfortable that’s usually where the growth happens. I think it’s just we need to remember how to communicate without this object that has kind of grown into our apparatus to be part of our hand. My… my 11-year-old daughter, who just walked in, Blooma, she once said something to me that totally stopped me in my tracks. She was like, “No one at the end of their life is going to wish they were… they scrolled more.” And I was like, “Wow.” That's right. I mean, everyone does a lot of creative things online, but we spend a lot of time just scrolling. And… and yes, sometimes scrolling is like when you’ve had a really stressful day and you just want to like space out, there's a space for that. But when it starts to go beyond that point, where you’re like, “Whoa, three hours just went by. What did I just do? Who am I? What have I become?” And then I think that's why doing a practice like Tech Shabbat, it always kind of puts it in check and makes you be intentional with how you're using your phone, and recognize when you're using it too much, and how does that make you feel. And what do you do? Like, I usually am like, “I need to go outside. I need to get away from the screens.”
Shivani Persad: Then another thing you mention, as well, is that when you do this you feel limitless. And I really appreciated that, because I know that for some people the idea of a Tech Shabbat can feel very limiting and restrictive. But you're actually in the book illustrating that it should do the exact opposite.
Tiffany Shlain: Yes, it sets you free. I mean, if you think about like creative constraints actually make you more creative. Like if I told you to write right now, you’d be like, “Oh my god, what should I write?” If I said, “Write a five-word poem,” I just gave you a constraint and then suddenly you can do it. And I think the ultimate constraint in life is that we're going to die. And I started doing Tech Shabbat because I… I lost my father and my daughter was born within days. And it was this very dramatic period of my life. But it really made it clear, like, “Whoa, I could die any day, and I want to be present for this life.” I don't want to live this… I don’t want live staring down at my phone and scrolling and refreshing. I don't want to do that. So. I think, technology, what was so exciting in the early days of the Webby Awards is technology removed all these boundaries. You could work from anywhere. You could do anything from anywhere. You could bring your phone everywhere. But I think what we're seeing is it can burn us all out. There's a lot of mental health issues. And boundaries can also be a form of setting you free in a different way, that if you're like, “Oh, these are my workdays and then this is my rest day,” I'm only going to do things that are bringing me joy and no obligation and just like filled with joy, it’s totally liberating. And it feels… it does feel like this luxurious, beautiful day that is my favourite day of the week, my whole family's favourite day of the week, my husband’s, my kids’. It's just such a beautiful day. And when you do a practice this long, you just go, “Gosh, this is like this magic secret sauce.” And we've created a world where we're just it's always in the phone. But when you turn the phone off, it's like there’s this incredible world in front of you, and in yourself—if you give yourself a chance to have that—that will make you feel so much better.
Shivani Persad: Okay, Tiffany. So, at the end of each episode, we like to ask our guests about some of the things they value most. We want to know: what book changed your life?
Tiffany Shlain: I could answer that question in so many ways, but I'm going to do one that might be unexpected. Which is that when I… my father was a surgeon, growing up, but he started writing. And he published his first book when he was 50—the age that I am now—called Art & Physics: Parallel Visions in Space, Time, and Light. And the book became a New York Times bestseller and had a kind of cult following. And the concept of the book is that artists and physicists are talking about the same ideas through different lenses—one with images, and one with words and equations. And it was in the ‘80s, and he was one of the first people to really look at the art and science intersection. And he believed that radical artists and radical physicists were talking about the same ideas. And he goes throughout history to say it. So he came out with this book, Art & Physics. And cut to, I don't know, 10 years after it came out. My father was giving a talk at an art gallery in San Francisco. And I was there with my 10 best friends. And it was a dark and stormy night. And in walks this gorgeous young man who had a dog-eared copy of Art & Physics and walked up to my father and said, “Dr. Shlain, your book changed my life. I'm a huge fan. My name is Professor Ken Goldberg. And I've always wanted to meet you.” And literally without missing a beat, my father in his mind is like: Goldberg/Jewish, check; Professor/smart, check; loves my work, check. And he goes, “Have you met my daughter, Tiffany?” And we fell madly in love at that moment, and we’ve been together ever since. So my dad, at our wedding, he said, “I wrote Art & Physics so you two would meet. Now I realize that I was just like pulling you two together.” So that book changed my life.
Shivani Persad: Tiffany, our final question today is: what does joy look like to you?
Tiffany Shlain: It really looks like being with the people I love, being present and in the moment. Sometimes it's just like playing ukulele and I'm watching my daughters and husband playing an instrument or the dog. Or it's just like appreciating the moment. And ah, but it usually involves being around a table with good food, good wine, good conversation. I think that's joy.
Shivani Persad: Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We're so grateful. And one thing that you really made me think about a lot was also intentional entrances and exits. And I think that was such an intentional exit. So thank you so much again. I’m so grateful.
Tiffany Shlain: Ohh, ohh. I loved your questions. And I'm so excited that you're integrating some of this into your life. And it's just been a pleasure to talk to you.
Shivani Persad: Thanks for tuning into my conversation with Tiffany Shlain. You can find out more about her work at TiffanyShlain.com. That's S-H-L-A-I-N. For more ideas to help you live well, including the book featured in this episode, visit Indigo.ca/podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us on Apple podcasts. And don’t forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Well Said was produced for Indigo Books and Music Inc. by Vocal Fry Studios, and is co-hosted by me, Shivani Persad.
Shivani Persad: The information provided in this podcast should not be relied upon by our listeners as medical advice, even where it has been presented by physicians or medical practitioners. Any information presented in this podcast is not, nor is it intended to be, a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The views expressed throughout this podcast represent the views of the guests and do not necessarily represent the views of Indigo.